Winterbach Forum

#015 (29 Des 2009)

Johan Nel skryf die volgende:

Hi Tobie,
ek het ‘n paar jaar gelede (sien brief #002 hieronder) vir jou ’n e-mail gestuur oor my vrou Linda se Winterbach familie. Ek sien GISA het so ‘n paar maande gelede volume 16 van hul „SUID-AFRIKAANSE GESLAGREGISTERS” beskikbaar gemaak. Ek het nou gedurende die vakansie eers tyd gekry om dit te bestudeer. Ek het nogal meer verwag, maar hulle het maar min inligting oor die Winterbachs. Wat my egter verstom is dat volgens jou Winterbach-webblad het Johannes Carel Winterbach (ind00003) 5 kinders gehad, maar volgens GISA het hy 9 kinders gehad (waarvan 3 van die ekstra 4 kinders seuns was!). Ek wonder of my vrou nie van een van hierdie drie seuns afstam nie. O ja, as ek kyk na die ander 2 seuns van Johannes Carel is Dirk Jacobus (ind00010) wat jul voorvader is beslis nie my vrou se voorvader nie aangesien dit lyk volgens jou webblad of meeste van sy seuns Transvaal toe getrek het en of die twee seuns wat in Tulbagh gebly het óf vroeg dood is óf nie eintlik ‘n nageslag nagelaat het nie).

Hier is ’n kopie van die GISA stuk (sien veral c5 tot c8). Ek gaan belis kyk of ek meer hieroor kan kry en sal jou laat weet as ek iets vind.

Dankie vir jou insette, Johan. Ek sien volgens die GISA info dat persoon c1 en b4 dieselfde is, nl. Maria Carolina. Daarvolgens is sy ’n dogter (b4) én kleindogter (c1) van Johannes Carl x Dorethea Elisabeth THERON!
c2 en c6 was ook beide met ’n Hermi(e)na Susanna Helena VILJOEN getroud. Ma en dogter? Die een was ’n weduwee van ene Pienaar, maar nie van ’n Winterbach nie.
Ek het die databasis opgedateer met die 4 ekstra kinders, maar sal dit nog moet bevestig. Die stamboom sal ek later regmaak.
— Tobie

As iemand meer inligting kan stuur, kliek asb. hier

#008 (Thu, 11 Dec 2008):

Dear Sir,
Having perused your excellent web-site, and in particular your family tree, could I ask you a question?
My late aunt left me a family tree which mentions my great-grandfatherLouis George von Bratt Reynolds (b 1820 d 1877) as marrying Susanna Johanna Winterbach daughter of J.C Winterbach J.P, Landdrost TULBAGH....
Could the redoubtable original pioneer Winterbach be my ancestor?
Do you think this is possible, and if so where would Susanna (Suzanna?) figure in your records? My grandfather was always referred to as "o-pah" or the like, an Afrikaans link perhaps?
Kindest regards
David Reynolds, Newbury, England

Here are two more links:
Cape Colony Records
British immigrants to SA

The last link mentions the fact that Louis George von Bratt Reynolds married Susanna Johanna Winterbach on 21 Jul 1842 with the consent of her father, J.C. Winterbach. It is possible that Johannes Carel Winterbach, (b 1812/05/06 d 1884/10/12,ind00007, married to F.J. Visser) had a daughter named Susanna (or Suzanna) Johanna. He did reside in Tulbagh and I know there was a magistrate (Afrikaans = landdros) Winterbach.
“O-pah” is actually spelled “Oupa” and is the Afrikaans word meaning “Grandfather”.
– Tobie

#008.1 Dominic Haarhoff wrote [18 Jun 2009]:

Dear Tobie,
I am writing to you in hopes that I may be of some assistance in the matter in question as I happen to be in possession of some primary sources that may be of help (Susanna Johanna Winterbach is my 3rd great Grandmother) According to this LDS record , Susanna Johanna Winterbach was born in 1824 and was around 18 when she got married to Louis George.

According to my records, her father Johan Carl Winterbach (d. 1862) served as the ‘First Stipendiary Justice of the Peace’ from 1806 and was also appointed as the first post master in October 1816 by Charles Somerset. (Most likely this is what the “J.P. Landdrost” David indicated in his post is referring to).

Considering the above it is impossible that the J.Carel Winterbach who married F.J Visser was the father as he would have been 12 at the time. I would suggest instead that this is her elder brother. (She would have been born 3 years before Dirk Jacobus). The inscription on her gravestone at the Kruisvallei Cemetery in Tulbagh indicates that she died in 1898.

Kind regards
Dominic

#008.2 Dominic Haarhoff added this information [15 Nov 2009]:

Dear Tobie
My apologies for not having gotten back to you sooner. I have up and till now been very involved in collating information together about Susanna Winterbach’s son Pieter Jacobus Reynolds and his establishment of a farm called ‘Grantham’ outside of Beaufort West, now a historic monument and part of the Karroo National Park. It’s been a busy couple of months of scanning, digital restoration and layout, culminating in a series of eight frames consisting of enlargements of over 50 photographs depicting the history for the farm which had, until the 70’s, been in Reynolds family for over 4 generations.

Ironically after having left Beauford West and returned to George, where I live, I discovered that Susanna’s sister Maria Carolina has actually died in Beauford. Next time I make a pilgrimage to Beauford West I shall surely have to investigate the cemetery there. I do plan actually to visit Beauford again in June next year as we plan to publish a booklet on the history of the farm Grantham. I got another surprise just the other daywas when I discovered a connection to the Aspeling family that had settled in George in the 1840’s and that this is actually where Maria Carolina’s husband Johan Gustav had died.

I have unfortunately not been able to establish contact with David Reynolds at the address you supplied me with as I think that it may be outdated. In the meantime I have re-established contact with another cousin living in England and so may yet be able to track David down. When I first contacted my cousin Marius in England, I learned surprisingly that he had just gotten back from a trip to Tulbach (!) and so we had just missed the perfect opportunity to investigate about the connection between Susanna, Jan Carl and Dorothea Theron.

Since then I have done a little research about the Winterbach’s and even managed to work out Many of the ancestors of the women they married. (See attached pedigree chart for Susanna J. Winterbach). Also attached to this email are two pictures of Susanna that I have scanned in and fade corrected. The resolution of the images is fairly high, so they should be suitable for printing. I had actually planned to send the actual prints to you, but have been putting off sending the letter first on account of the postal strike and now due to things taking longer over the holiday season. Finally I just decided today to just send you the pictures via email and hope the file size would not pose too much of a problem for you.

Earlier today my attention again turned to the Winterbach’s and I found an record that may refer to stamvader Johann Carel’s parents. According to your tree his parents were Johann Dietrich and Anna Margaretha Meulen. According to this mormon record there was a Johan Dietrich Winterbach who married a Anna Magdalena Mullings in Cleve, on 9 August 1733. Despite the alternate spelling of the wife’s name the date and the place does fit with the information we have about Johan Carel, so may be worth investigating if you are keen on researching the origin of the family in Germany.

Kind Regards
Dominic

Anna Magdalena Mullings? I doubt it. Mullings is not a common Dutch/German surname and my research shows that Johann Dietrich married Anna Margaretha Meulen in Cleve.
Thanks for the pictures of Susanna Johanna Winterbach!
– Tobie

#008.3 (26 Mar 2010)

Hi Tobie
I would be very interested to know the history of the farm. [see #008.2 above - Tobie]
I think that my Grandfather Thomas Charles Grantham was involved some how with this farm.
I have picked up bits and pieces in the National Archive of South Africa about the farm.

Regards
Robert Grantham

If someone can supply more information, please click here